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<channel>
	<title>Church Hopping</title>
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	<link>http://www.churchhopping.com</link>
	<description>Now 17% Less Judgemental</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Why You Should Tithe In July</title>
		<link>http://www.churchhopping.com/why-you-should-tithe-in-july/</link>
		<comments>http://www.churchhopping.com/why-you-should-tithe-in-july/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 14:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rives</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Ministry]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchhopping.com/?p=438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-444 alignleft" style="float: left;" title="Annual Church Revenue Cycle" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/contributions1-287x300.jpg" alt="" width="191" height="200" />Consider this graph which reflects a typical giving and expense cycle for a church.  How would you like to be in charge of planning that budget?  I <a href="http://www.generousgiving.org/print.asp?p_sec=4&#38;p_page=660&#38;url=/page.asp?sec=4&#38;page=660" target="_blank">read a stat</a> that says most churches plan their budget based on each member giving between 2-3% of their income to the church.  And if you've ever been involved with church budgeting you have heard the saying "20% of the church gives 80% of the money."  Though many would say 10% gives 90% is more accurate.

<strong><a href = "http://www.churchhopping.com/why-you-should-tithe-in-julywhy-you-should-tithe-in-july">Continue Reading</a></strong>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-444 alignleft" style="float: left;" title="Annual Church Revenue Cycle" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/contributions1-287x300.jpg" alt="" width="287" height="300" />Consider this graph which reflects a typical giving and expense cycle for a church.  How would you like to be in charge of planning that budget?  I <a href="http://www.generousgiving.org/print.asp?p_sec=4&amp;p_page=660&amp;url=/page.asp?sec=4&amp;page=660" target="_blank">read a stat</a> that says most churches plan their budget based on each member giving between 2-3% of their income to the church.  And if you&#8217;ve ever been involved with church budgeting you have heard the saying &#8220;20% of the church gives 80% of the money.&#8221;  Though many would say 10% gives 90% is more accurate.</p>
<p>Every church I have been a part of has spent the most on salaries for their employees, usually about 50% of the total budget.  A <a href="http://www.leadnet.org/downloads/megasummaryreportFINAL.pdf" target="_blank">survey of mega churches</a> showed in 2005 there were 20 full-time leadership staff, which is up from 13 in 2000.  A growing staff seems to be the focus of many landlocked churches that I&#8217;ve seen.  If you can&#8217;t enhance your facilities, then go for a lower staff to member ratio. In my experience, this is a much more effective strategy than just building a bigger church that&#8217;ll fit more people.  But a building can usually be built a lot faster than deep, meaningful relationships.</p>
<p>Of the three churches I have gone to recently, the missions budget was 6%, 10% and 30% of the total budget.  <img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-445 alignright" style="float: right;" title="Annual Baptism Cycle" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/baptisms1.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="225" />The most recent survey shows that the average missions budget in American churches is 5%.  Of course many churches consider their entire budget to be missional.  This is a great mindset to have, but I prefer a church that recognizes the &#8220;all nations&#8221; part in <cite class="bibleref" title="Matthew 28:19" style="display: none;"></cite><a  class="tippy_link" onMouseOver="domTip_toolText('bref2176366095', '&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;verse-num woc&quot; id=&quot;v40028019-1&quot;&gt;19&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;woc&quot;&gt;Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;',  'Matthew 28:19', 'http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matthew+28%3A19');" onMouseOut="domTip_clearTip('false')" href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matthew+28%3A19" >Matthew 28:19</a> and gives away a lot of money instead of adding luxuries for their members.</p>
<p>Another graph to consider is this one relating to the average number of baptisms over a year. Maybe all those people who were baptized in August decide to start tithing for a few month, until the spiritual high passes in January.   Or maybe people are just conservative budgeters and underestimated their giving ability until later in the year.  While those are nice thoughts, it more than likely people just trying to get in a tax deduction for that year.  As for the baptism trends, its pretty obvious&#8230;who wants to get dunked in water in the winter.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Crystal Gospel&#8230;like Crystal Pepsi</title>
		<link>http://www.churchhopping.com/crystal-gospel-like-crystal-pepsi/</link>
		<comments>http://www.churchhopping.com/crystal-gospel-like-crystal-pepsi/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 12:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rives</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Ministry]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchhopping.com/?p=408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignleft alignnone size-medium wp-image-441" style="float: left;" title="Crystal Pepsi" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/crystalpepsi1.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="234" />We just went through the new membership process at <a title="Irving Bible" href="http://www.irvingbible.org" target="_blank">our new church</a>.  A slightly different process than others I have been a part of.  It was less informational and more experiential.  The idea was to make church membership feel more personal by sharing stories and testimonies.  For a big church I can see the benefit and they did allow for questions if you had any.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">My one complaint is that at no point did they clearly lay out the Gospel.  I wanted to hear, "This is what is necessary for you to believe for salvation."   But in both the Newcomer Gathering and the Membership class, this was never said.</p>

<strong><a href = "http://www.churchhopping.com/crystal-gospel-like-crystal-pepsi/">Continue Reading</a></strong>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignleft alignnone size-medium wp-image-441" style="float: left;" title="Crystal Pepsi" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/crystalpepsi1.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="234" />We just went through the new membership process at <a title="Irving Bible" href="http://www.irvingbible.org" target="_blank">our new church</a>.  A slightly different process than others I have been a part of.  It was less informational and more experiential.  The idea was to make church membership feel more personal by sharing stories and testimonies.  For a big church I can see the benefit and they did allow for questions if you had any.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">My one complaint is that at no point did they clearly lay out the Gospel.  I wanted to hear, &#8220;This is what is necessary for you to believe for salvation.&#8221;   But in both the Newcomer Gathering and the Membership class, this was never said.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">In the Membership class you are broken into small groups with an elder in each and you share your testimony.  One of the couples in our class was a little vague in their conversion experience, dropping questionable lines like &#8220;I&#8217;ve always believed in Jesus.&#8221;  It is very possible that the elders or someone is responsible for following up on this or perhaps it is covered in the baptism class (the couple requested to be baptized).  I think there are going to be a lot of instances that are missed and by laying out the gospel clearly (clear like crystal pepsi&#8230;funny title right?)  they could set that straight with everyone right then.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">They do give you <a title="Irving Bible's Purpose, Dreams &amp; Beliefs" href="http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/ibc/ministries/community_life/IBCinfo.pdf" target="_blank">a booklet that lays out the beliefs of the church</a>, but how many are going to read through it?  When I was in youth ministry we got a new group of 7th grade kids every year.  The first month of small group was all about what is the Gospel.  I usually took <cite class="bibleref" title="1 Corinthians 15:3-11" style="display: none;"></cite><a  class="tippy_link" onMouseOver="domTip_toolText('bref1555221079', '&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015003-1&quot;&gt;3&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015004-1&quot;&gt;4&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015005-1&quot;&gt;5&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015006-1&quot;&gt;6&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015007-1&quot;&gt;7&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015008-1&quot;&gt;8&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015009-1&quot;&gt;9&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015010-1&quot;&gt;10&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v46015011-1&quot;&gt;11&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;',  '1 Corinthians 15:3-11', 'http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+15%3A3-11');" onMouseOut="domTip_clearTip('false')" href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+15%3A3-11" >1 Corinthians 15:3-11</a> and said this is what you believe to be a Christian.  I think this is important with all of the differing theologies and backgrounds out there that we at the least present the basics and make sure our members are getting those right.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><strong>UPDATE:</strong> Jennifer, who is in charge of new membership, emailed me to let me know that more than likely the elder would be following up with someone whose testimony seemed unclear.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;"><p>The elders are very careful on ensuring that those seeking membership understand the gospel and are truly Christians.  We have had folks who were denied membership as well as baptism because they didn’t understand, at which point the elder would share the gospel with them as well as make sure they knew about Alpha (an informational class about Christianity).</p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">I&#8217;m still convinced sharing it upfront with the group is probably best, but people can zone that out easier than making up a doctrinally-sound testimony I guess.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Welcome to the Mos Eisley Cantina</title>
		<link>http://www.churchhopping.com/welcome-to-the-mos-eisley-cantina/</link>
		<comments>http://www.churchhopping.com/welcome-to-the-mos-eisley-cantina/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rives</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Extra]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchhopping.com/?p=436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="425" height="355" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_J5rBxeTIk&#38;hl=en" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="355" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_J5rBxeTIk&#38;hl=en" wmode="transparent" align="right"></embed></object>So the Vatican's chief astronomer recently said that <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_aliens" target="_blank">belief in aliens does not contradict faith in God</a>.  This is a hilarious discussion.  One time Mindy and I got into a big argument because she wouldn't admit that it is more likely than not that there are aliens.  Yes, we actually had this discussion.  I think that logically with the size of the universe and the huge number of other planets, you have to say that there is a greater probability that there is life elsewhere than not.  I am not saying that there are in fact aliens, but just that the probability of there being other life is greater than the probability of no other life.

I think this is an obvious statement, but we can look at the math.

<strong><a href = "http://www.churchhopping.com/welcome-to-the-mos-eisley-cantina/">Continue Reading</a></strong>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><code><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="425" height="355" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0" align="right">
<param name="wmode" value="transparent" />
<param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_J5rBxeTIk&amp;hl=en" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="355" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_J5rBxeTIk&amp;hl=en" wmode="transparent"></embed></object></code>So the Vatican&#8217;s chief astronomer recently said that <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_aliens" target="_blank">belief in aliens does not contradict faith in God</a>.  This is a hilarious discussion.  One time Mindy and I got into a big argument because she wouldn&#8217;t admit that it is more likely than not that there are aliens.  Yes, we actually had this discussion.  I think that logically with the size of the universe and the huge number of other planets, you have to say that there is a greater probability that there is life elsewhere than not.  I am not saying that there are in fact aliens, but just that the probability of there being other life is greater than the probability of no other life.<br />
I think this is an obvious statement, but we can look at the math.  Our star, affectionately known as the Sun, has eight planets orbiting it (RIP Pluto).  Only one of these eight planets has life.  According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star#Distribution" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, our star is one of 300 billion stars in the Milky Way.  Since not all stars will have planets, we&#8217;ll play it safe and estimate each star has only one planet orbiting it.  Many stars have no planets orbiting them, such as our neighbor Proxima Centauri.  However there are at least 270 planets outside of our solar systems that we know of, so surely some stars have multiple planets like ours.  So with our safe estimate of one planet per star, that means there would be 300 billion planets in the Milky Way alone.  In the observable universe there are over 100 billion galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars.  The current estimate for the number of stars in the galaxy is 70 sextillion or 7 followed by 22 zeros.  So assuming there is only one planet per star, that means 70 sextillion planets.  What are the odds that only one of 70 sextillion planets contains life?</p>
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<p>If there were life on another planet, how is their approach to God different?  Does Christ&#8217;s death cover their sins as well?  Were they even subjected to the Fall or did they get it right the first time?  Does the Bible apply to them or has God revealed different things to them?  Perhaps Christ died for their sins on their planet long before (or after) He did here?</p>
<p>Of course this conversation can in the end come to no conclusion.  You will notice I didn&#8217;t quote any verses and my stats came from Wikipedia.  Many people will (probably wisely) just ignore this discussion all together for these reasons and the most surprising thing they learned was that the Vatican has a chief astronomer.</p>
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		<title>A Pilate Error</title>
		<link>http://www.churchhopping.com/a-pilate-error/</link>
		<comments>http://www.churchhopping.com/a-pilate-error/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 12:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rives</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[NT Scripture]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchhopping.com/?p=430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<img class="alignright alignnone size-medium wp-image-433" style="float: right;" title="Pilate?" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/pilate-300x253.jpg" alt="" width="185" height="155" />I was listening to a sermon this afternoon on the topic of absolute truth (or Truth if you prefer).  The reference was John 18:33-38 which is Jesus' encounter with Pilate.  The speaker said something that caught me off guard.  He said that Pilate committed suicide three years after Jesus was crucified.  I had never heard that so being my curious self, I investigated.

Pilate does not benefit from a huge amount of ancient evidence outside of the Bible.  The first reference we have of him is from the historian Tacitus in one of the popular extra-biblical references to Jesus.  It just says that Christ was "put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius."  There was also a stone with Pilate's name carved in it found in the 60s which is the only archaeological evidence of Pilate with his title in the New Testament (prefect).

<strong><a href = "http://www.churchhopping.com/a-pilate-error/">Continue Reading</a></strong>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-443 alignright" style="float: right;" title="Is This Pilate?" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/pilate1.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="253" />I was listening to a sermon this afternoon on the topic of absolute truth (or Truth if you prefer).  The reference was <cite class="bibleref" title="John 18:33-38" style="display: none;"></cite><a  class="tippy_link" onMouseOver="domTip_toolText('bref1672956242', '&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018033-1&quot;&gt;33&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, &amp;#8220;Are you the King of the Jews?&amp;#8221; &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018034-1&quot;&gt;34&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Jesus answered, &lt;span class=&quot;woc&quot;&gt;&amp;#8220;Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?&amp;#8221;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018035-1&quot;&gt;35&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Pilate answered, &amp;#8220;Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?&amp;#8221; &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018036-1&quot;&gt;36&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Jesus answered, &lt;span class=&quot;woc&quot;&gt;&amp;#8220;My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.&amp;#8221;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018037-1&quot;&gt;37&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Then Pilate said to him, &amp;#8220;So you are a king?&amp;#8221; Jesus answered, &lt;span class=&quot;woc&quot;&gt;&amp;#8220;You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world&amp;#8212;to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.&amp;#8221;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43018038-1&quot;&gt;38&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;Pilate said to him, &amp;#8220;What is truth?&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, &amp;#8220;I find no guilt in him.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;',  'John 18:33-38', 'http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+18%3A33-38');" onMouseOut="domTip_clearTip('false')" href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+18%3A33-38" >John 18:33-38</a> which is Jesus&#8217; encounter with Pilate.  The speaker said something that caught me off guard.  He said that Pilate committed suicide three years after Jesus was crucified.  I had never heard that so being my curious self, I investigated.</p>
<p>Pilate does not benefit from a huge amount of ancient evidence outside of the Bible.  The first reference we have of him is from the historian Tacitus in one of the popular extra-biblical references to Jesus.  It just says that Christ was &#8220;put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius.&#8221;  There was also a stone with Pilate&#8217;s name carved in it found in the 60s which is the only archaeological evidence of Pilate with his title in the New Testament (prefect).</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-442 alignleft" style="float: left;" title="Pontius Pilate Inscription" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/pilateinscription1.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="225" />Then we have various stories from Josephus about Pilate&#8217;s failure to effectively deal with the religious society that was Judea.  In one story, Pilate used sacred treasure to pay for aqueducts to bring water into Jerusalem.  When a crowd gathered to protest, Pilate ordered some soldiers to dress in civilian clothes and sneak into the crowd.  When Pilate gave the signal, the soldiers turned on the crowd and beat them until they scattered.</p>
<p>According to Josephus, Pilate&#8217;s downfall was when a Samaritan man claimed to be able to show the Samaritans where Moses hid some sacred vessels.  When a large group assembled to climb the mountain where they were hidden, Pilate&#8217;s calvary attacked them and many were killed.  The Samaritans complained to the legate of Syria, Vitellius, that Pilate was guilty of murder.  Vitellius removed Pilate from office and ordered him to travel to Rome to stand trial under the emperor Tiberius.  During his journey to Rome Tiberius died, so Pilate escaped judgment in the confusion.</p>
<p>That is the last somewhat credible source we have on Pilate.  There are various later writings from the 3rd to 5th century where the stories of his suicide come from.  That story says that Pilate arrived to stand trial in front of the emperor wearing Jesus&#8217; seamless robe from <cite class="bibleref" title="John 19:23-24" style="display: none;"></cite><a  class="tippy_link" onMouseOver="domTip_toolText('bref2146888499', '&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43019023-1&quot;&gt;23&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his garments and divided them into four parts, one part for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom, &lt;span class=&quot;verse-num&quot; id=&quot;v43019024-1&quot;&gt;24&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;so they said to one another, &amp;#8220;Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.&amp;#8221; This was to fulfill the Scripture which says,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;block-indent&quot;&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;line-group&quot;&gt;&amp;#8220;They divided my garments among them,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;indent&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;and for my clothing they cast lots.&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;same-paragraph&quot;&gt;So the soldiers did these things,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;',  'John 19:23-24', 'http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+19%3A23-24');" onMouseOut="domTip_clearTip('false')" href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+19%3A23-24" >John 19:23-24</a>.  Because Pilate was wearing the robe, Caesar could not say a harsh word to him.  However it was later taken off of Pilate and the emperor sentenced him to death.  Pilate didn&#8217;t wait and committed suicide.</p>
<p>While it would be a nice sermon additive to say that the anguish over allowing Jesus&#8217; crucifixion was too much for Pilate, we just do not have enough credible evidence that this is true.  I respect the pastor that made this error, so I guess I&#8217;ll let him slide&#8230;.this time.</p>
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		<title>Women in Ministry-Response</title>
		<link>http://www.churchhopping.com/women-in-ministry-response/</link>
		<comments>http://www.churchhopping.com/women-in-ministry-response/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 21:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rives</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Ministry]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchhopping.com/?p=405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<img class="alignright" style="float: right;" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/girl1.JPG" alt="Used Before, But Its Great" width="205" height="249" />Women's role in ministry is a complicated issue so I requested some comments from some people I respect.  Read <a href="http://www.churchhopping.com/women-in-ministrywomen-in-ministry/ " target="_self">my initial post on this</a> and then read Brent's response:

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<ul>
	<li>Women and men were created equal, so positionally a woman is not less than a man</li>
	<li>However, their ROLES are different, and this is much of what Paul speaks of in his writings, esp. regarding marriage</li>
</ul>
<strong><a href = "http://www.churchhopping.com/women-in-ministry-responsewomen-in-ministry-response/">Continue Reading</a></strong>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignright" style="float: right;" src="http://www.churchhopping.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/girl1.JPG" alt="Used Before, But Its Great" width="205" height="249" />Women&#8217;s role in ministry is a complicated issue so I requested some comments from some people I respect.  Read <a href="http://www.churchhopping.com/women-in-ministry/ " target="_self">my initial post on this</a> and then read Brent&#8217;s response:</p>
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<ul>
<li>Women and men were created equal, so positionally a woman is not less than a man</li>
<li>However, their ROLES are different, and this is much of what Paul speaks of in his writings, esp. regarding marriage</li>
<li>I do not believe women should be elders&#8230;this is made clear in different places, but the scriptures are all mentioned already in the PDF&#8230;in the original language, there are times you can tell gender differentiation, and in the passages for rules on elders, it is pretty blatant it is referring to men only</li>
<li>Because, of this, I DO NOT THINK at any point a woman should be welcomed as an associate pastor, because associate pastors (including the head pastor) are ELDERS&#8230;when the Bible speaks of a woman not teaching a man, I believe it is in this context</li>
<li>Which means I have no problem with a woman serving in the role of a teacher in certain contexts; what if  woman gets up  during the service to give  testimony from the pulpit about a ministry she is a part of, and ends up teaching a biblical lesson in the process?  I have no problem with this. She is not LITERALLY acting as an elected ELDER at that point, she is simply sharing truth about God in her life</li>
<li>So, positionally I would not give biblical warrant to a female associate pastor, thought I would not deny women the right to teach small groups that have men in them/youth services that have men in them, etc.</li>
<li>The main issue I have with the arguments arising out of this discussion is that women starting feeling ENTITLED to certain things, and thus lose what the Bible defines as their ROLE as a woman; it is not subservient, it is a glorious role; but women, being subjected in authority over time, are jumping off the other side of the wall (so to speak)</li>
</ul>
<div>By the way, we have women who serve as ushers and teach in Sunday school contexts and share testimonies on Sunday mornings, but we do not have female associate pastors whose primary role is exegeting and teaching the Word of God to our body.  That role is viewed as being reserved for men only (because that&#8217;s their clear biblical role).</div>
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<div>I think his point about associate pastors being elders is interesting.  Should all teaching pastors be an elder?  Associate pastors were probably not a consideration of Paul&#8217;s when he was writing, though I am sure the Holy Spirit considered it when He inspired Paul.</div>
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